The Value Builder Podcast

In this episode of The Value Builder Podcast, Saul sits down with Cody Payne of Flex Parks USA, one of the most experienced operators in small bay flex industrial, alongside partner Shea Lewis. With over 20 years in the space and more than 10,000 transactions closed, Cody breaks down what’s actually happening in today’s flex industrial market—from rent trends and tenant demand to why newer metal product is outperforming traditional infill.
This conversation goes beyond surface-level insights and gets into what’s really driving pricing, leasing velocity, and investor behavior in 2026.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why newer metal flex parks are commanding higher rents than infill assets
The real difference between contractor-driven demand vs growth-driven markets
What buyers are actually looking for in stabilized vs value-add deals
How tenant mix, clear height, and location impact long-term performance
Why basic “commodity” flex space is most at risk of oversupply
The key amenities and features that separate top-performing parks
From development strategy to disposition insights, this episode gives a clear look at where flex industrial is heading—and how to position yourself on the right side of it.
Connect with Cody:Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Flex-Space-Domination-Capitalizing-Industrial/dp/B0D385755LLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/codypayne/Online: https://flexbusinessparks.com/

Tim Chen brings a ground-level view of what’s actually happening in multifamily today—from rapid expansion during peak markets to navigating one of the toughest cycles in recent memory. After scaling from brokerage into ownership and development, Tim shares how shifting strategies, controlling costs, and thinking long-term are shaping his current approach.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why many multifamily deals are underwater and what caused it
How rising rates and stalled rent growth are reshaping underwriting
Why development can outperform value-add in certain markets
How California’s property tax structure changes long-term strategy
Where real deal flow is coming from in today’s market
Why vertical integration is becoming a competitive advantage
Connect with Tim:Email: tc@connectedcompanies.comPhone: (949) 391-6668LinkeIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timdchen/Website: https://www.connectedcompanies.com/
This episode is for operators, investors, and builders who want a clear, honest look at today’s market—and how to adapt without relying on yesterday’s playbook.

Aleksey Chernobelskiy went from managing a $10B real estate portfolio to building one of the most practical platforms in CRE capital markets.
In this episode, he breaks down how GPLP Match is simplifying the connection between GPs and LPs—without fees, without friction, and without the noise.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why capital raising in CRE is still inefficient
How GPLP Match filters and connects the right investors
What LPs actually look for beyond IRR
Why most deal decks fail before they’re even read
The difference between short-term and long-term capital strategies
This episode is a clear look at where capital markets are heading—and what operators need to fix if they want to compete.
If you're raising capital or deploying it, this one gives a real-world edge.
Contact Aleksey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chernobelskiy/
Sign up as a GP or LP at: https://gplpmatch.com/

Pat Hiban of Gobundance has done what most in real estate never reach—over $1B in sales, a dominant team, and a successful transition into multifamily investing and passive income. But what stands out now isn’t what he built… it’s what he walked away from.
In this episode, Pat breaks down how he engineered a life working just 90 minutes a day, why he left commissions behind, and the simple framework he now uses to evaluate every opportunity that comes his way.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why high-volume sales eventually stops being the right game
The shift from transactional income to true “horizontal” income
How the 2008 crash forced a complete career pivot
Why most side hustles fail—and how to quit them fast
The “Easy, Lucrative, Fun” filter for evaluating deals
How Gobundance scaled into a 1,000+ member network organically
Pat’s story is a reminder that success isn’t just about building more—it’s about building better, then knowing when to step back.
If you're chasing freedom, rethinking your business model, or evaluating what’s actually worth your time, this conversation will recalibrate how you approach the next opportunity.
 
Contact/Links
Email - pat@hiban.com
Gobundance - https://gobundance.com
Matt King - The Ride - https://gobundance.com/theride
 
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Pat Hiban
03:54 Life Updates and Work Balance
10:31 Transitioning from Real Estate Sales
15:22 Side Hustles and Lessons Learned
22:36 The Journey of Adapt Acquisitions and GoBundance
24:17 The Magic Touch in Business Ventures
25:05 Real Estate Cycles and Future Predictions
28:57 Exploring New Business Models
36:39 The Evolution of GoBundance
45:48 Connecting with Pat Hiban

After more than 40 years in commercial real estate, developer, broker, and general contractor Paul Frank shares why he is shifting away from ground-up development and focusing on brokerage and coaching the next generation of operators.
In this conversation, Paul and Saul break down what has changed in development economics, entitlement timelines, and permitting costs. From six-figure permit fees to multi-year approval delays, they explore why demand for certain asset classes is strong while new supply remains constrained.
They also discuss where opportunity still exists in today’s market, including light industrial shortages, commercial condo strategies, and the long-term value of drive-through retail sites.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Why entitlement timelines and permitting costs are reshaping development
How developers can adapt by shifting strategy and roles
The growing supply-demand gap in light industrial real estate
Creative value-add approaches like commercial condo conversions
Why drive-through retail sites remain a resilient investment
If you want a grounded, real-world perspective on what is actually happening in development today, this episode delivers decades of hard-earned insight.
Connect with Paul:
Email: paul@pdf-usa.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paulfrankpdf/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulfrankpdf/
Web: https://www.pdf-usa.com/
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This week, Saul sits down with Michael Kuritnik with Kumo Capital for a practical conversation on where AI is actually working in real estate — and where the hype still outweighs the results.
Mike runs a family office with his brother, dad, and mom, and over the past few years they’ve evolved from multifamily into other asset classes while staying focused on technology, underwriting, and operational leverage. In this episode, the conversation centers on real use cases: how AI is helping with underwriting, broker engagement, deal screening, and internal workflows — without pretending the tools are farther along than they really are.
They also shift into a broader investment discussion and compare which asset classes look most attractive heading into 2026.
Key takeaways:
Why most AI implementations in business are still failing
The importance of educating your team before forcing AI into workflows
How Mike’s team uses Claude, automation, and scrape tools to support underwriting
Where AI helps with broker response, OM review, and demographic filtering
Why Argus still matters and how it fits into a hybrid underwriting process
Mike’s take on flex industrial, agricultural land, and retail in 2026
Saul’s case for small bay industrial, retail, and one-story office
Connect with Mike:
Instagram: @mkuritnikWebsite: investkumo.com
If you’re trying to separate AI signal from noise — or figure out which CRE asset classes still offer real opportunity in 2026 — this episode gives you a grounded, operator-level perspective.

In this episode of the Value Builder Podcast, Saul sits down with Nick Terry, founder of Rifle CRE, a Houston-based commercial real estate platform that blends brokerage, investment, construction, and property management into one vertically integrated ecosystem.
Nick started his firm during the chaos of early 2020, pivoting from office tenant representation into small bay industrial investing just as the market began accelerating. What followed was the creation of a unique operating model where brokerage feeds acquisitions, acquisitions create management opportunities, and construction unlocks additional value.
Instead of building a traditional brokerage, Nick built a real estate flywheel—a platform where every service supports the same strategy: acquiring and repositioning small bay industrial properties.
Saul and Nick dive into how this model works in practice and discuss the operational strategies that drive returns.
They cover:
Why small bay industrial remains one of the most resilient asset classes
How spec suites and higher-end finishes can dramatically increase rents
The importance of staggering lease expirations to maximize exit value
Why brokerage can be the best sourcing engine for acquisitions
How vertical integration can create a competitive advantage for operators
The economics behind value-add industrial renovations
Why some office buildings may present opportunity again at the right basis
Nick also shares how his team recently raised capital for a multi-property industrial fund and why having committed capital allows them to move faster and win deals.
This episode is packed with practical insights for commercial real estate investors, operators, developers, and brokers looking to build scalable real estate platforms.
Connect with Nick Terry
Rifle CREWebsite: https://riflecre.comInstagram: @riflecreLinkedIn: Nick Terry
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This week, Saul sits down with Matt DeVito and Rob Marek to unpack a niche strategy most industrial owners don’t even know exists: lifting the roof.
If you own vintage industrial with 14–16’ clear heights, you already know the problem. Modern users want 24’, 28’, or more. Instead of tearing down and rebuilding, Matt and Rob walk through how entire warehouse roofs can be hydraulically lifted — and when it actually makes financial sense.
This isn’t a gimmick episode. It’s a feasibility conversation.
Key takeaways:
How roof lifting actually works from a structural standpoint
What happens to sprinklers, HVAC, lighting, and fire protection
Typical timelines from analysis to lift day
Real-world cost frameworks for a 100,000 SF building
When column removal is practical — and when it kills the deal
The math behind deciding whether to lift, redevelop, or sell
The central question isn’t “Can you lift the roof?”It’s “Should you?”
If you're holding older industrial in urban or suburban markets and wondering how to compete with modern warehouse specs, this episode gives you a framework to evaluate the move.
Connect with:Matt DeVito – liftxusa.comRob Marek – rooflift.com

This week, Saul sits down with Graham Storey to break down how he transitioned from brokerage into owning small bay industrial—using direct-to-seller outreach and seller financing to create serious equity.
After learning under CityPlat in North Carolina, Graham began sourcing and buying bite-sized industrial deals in tertiary markets—often with seller financing and little to no money out of pocket.
Key takeaways:
Why tertiary markets still offer spread between lease rates and pricing
How Graham structures seller-financed industrial deals
The “lease-before-close” strategy to unlock value
A real-world BRRR example in small bay industrial
Why cold calling still works in overlooked markets
Connect with Graham:Instagram: @graham_storeyPodcast: Commercial Real Estate Blueprint
If you're trying to move from broker to owner—or ramp up your off-market acquisition strategy—this episode is a tactical blueprint.

This week, Saul sits down with Justin Goodin, founder of Goodin Development, to break down the real mechanics behind ground-up multifamily development in today’s market.
From starting as a multifamily underwriter to building $33M Class A mixed-use projects across Indiana, Justin shares why he transitioned out of value-add, how he structures public-private partnerships, and what it actually takes to get a deal from land to exit in under three years.
Key takeaways:
Why development can be less competitive than value-add
How to calculate developer spread and yield on cost
The role TIF incentives play in making deals pencil
Real timelines from land acquisition to stabilization
How Justin structures development fees and contingency
Connect with Justin: https://goodindevelopment.com/invest-with-us/
If you’re an operator thinking about scaling into development—or wondering whether ground-up makes sense in 2026—this episode gives you a practical, math-driven look at what it really takes.